Jim: You are still falling into the PC trap. No one (including me) is willing to suggest one possibility. Two Nobel Prize winners have been excoriated for doing so, including one recently in Britain. And Larry Summers was forced out of Harvard for doing this. When will we at least examine all of the possibilities?

Which possibility are you suggesting, Mr. Fullerton - that African American and Hispanic kids are inherently dumber? I'm hoping that's not what you had in mind - it doesn't seem to be in character from you.

There is a problem in our society, however, in that a lot of minority kids don't take education seriously. There may be a number of reasons for that (which is the whole point of finding out what the problem is, isn't it?).

I think one of the reasons may be lower expectations from society and the educational establishment. People like that Nobel Prize winner in Britain (whose best work was about 40 years ago) only feed those lowered expectations.

This is not really about race or poverty. It’s about crime, drugs, alcoholism, life styles and moral choices.

For example, consider two hypothetical groups of kids - their race or economic status is unimportant.

One group lives in a stable environment with two different sex, married parents. Out-of-wedlock births were never an option. Divorce is not an option. There is one bread winner and one stay-at-home parent. (The salary of the bread-winner is relatively unimportant). The family gets together over the evening meal. This is a church going family. A certain moral life-style is practiced. Drugs and alcohol are not used. Children are taught appropriate behavior and manners. Good habits are formed. Respect for parents and all others is required. Cursing or talking back is not allowed. The parents know the whereabouts of their children at all times. Chores are part of the children’s upraising. Homework is done at nights rather than roaming the streets. Music, videos and friendships are screened rigorously. Family always comes first. Education is important. Discipline is applied strictly but lovingly.

2nd Group: They are born out-of-wedlock never knowing their father. Relatives that they do know are either living together outside of a marriage relationship or are many times divorced. Welfare is a way of life rather than maintaining a job. Their lives are surrounded by seldom-employed individuals heavily involved in drugs, alcohol and crime. Kids are undisciplined and allowed to run the streets. Household chores are not required. Respect, manners and right habits are never taught. Punishment for wrong-doing is non-existent because nothing is recognized as being wrong. Religion is never even talked about. Cursing is common place. Violence-inducing videos and music are prevalent. Gangs are the family. Education is unimportant and that idea is reinforced by everything they hear or see.

Now, you tell me who will succeed?

Achievement / education gap? It’s not about race or economics! It’s not about what side of town you live on. It’s not even really about discrimination! It’s all about life-style choices.

In a much narrower context, Author Myron Magnet made this point in a recent article: "The legacy of slavery and racism isn’t the reason, economist Thomas Sowell has long argued. That legacy didn’t stop blacks from raising themselves up after Emancipation. By World War I, Sowell’s data show, northern blacks scored higher on armed-forces tests than southern whites. After World War II and the GI Bill, black education and income levels rose sharply. It was only in the mid-1960s that a century of black progress seemed to make a sudden U-turn, a reversal that long-past events didn’t cause. Beginning around 1964, the rates of black high school graduation, workforce participation, crime, illegitimacy, and drug use all turned sharply in the wrong direction. While many blacks continued to move forward, a sizable minority solidified into an underclass, defined by self-destructive behavior that all but guaranteed failure."

The point I was making in my column is that this isn't just about students from stable or non-stable homes. This isn't just about poverty. African-American and Latino students from middle- and upper-income families score about the same on standardized tests as white students from poor families, according to the California Department of Education. Poor white students score substantially higher than African-American and Latino students from poor families.

If this were just about poverty, minority students from higher-income families would score better than white students from poor families.

I think some of the commenters are missing that part of the issue.

I was going to say something about T.C.'s post, but you said it better (and more charitably) than I could.

Getting back on track (hopefully), I took a look at Supt. O'Connell's website. I notice that this proposed "summit" would involve teachers, administrators and "policy makers" (school board members?). It may be a worthwhile effort if it produces more than just talk (or more tests). But I think the problem is broader than just the school system, although that's a part of it. I think ultimately it's going to have to be a community-wide effort. I also think most of the work will have to be done at the local level (although state and federal support would be good, as long as there aren't too many strings attached).

Look at some of the ideas in the "What Works" section on Leonard Pitts' website at the Miami Herald, where he is trying to collect ideas that have actually worked around the country to improve the performance of minority kids. I think there are some things there that might work here in Fresno.

I personally am sick to death about the teachers getting the blame for low test scores. The problem is that many minorities as people call them is that they don't want to learn English and their parents don't either so they only speak and hear one language which is not the language of our country.

Learning comes from inside a person not how much money they have. Being low income gives them way more opportunities in education than those with money cause everthing is handed to them on a silver platter. We are the minority in our own country. Just look around.

Wow, where to begin? First of all, no one in this blog is blaming teachers, so that's a non-sequitur.

Secondly, we're not talking primarily about English-learners here. Nor are we talking only about poor kids. We're talking about African American and Hispanic students of all socio-economic backgrounds. And this isn't about looking for someone to blame - rather, it's about finding solutions (not just pat answers).

And the assertion (although totally irrelevant) that low income is an advantage is just about the opposite of factual.

I beg to differ with you Mike D. Perhaps you don't have children that have been turned away from grants because we make to much money. There are Blacks, Hispanics and others that have been very successful in life and with education having come from low income familes or raised in crime ridden environments. Again I say learning is within every person if they just make the decision to succeed. I know several people that have wanted to enroll their children in Headstart only to be turned away cause they make to much money. That is a load of Crap because we are the ones paying big taxes to pay for the program in the first place. God created all people equal thus we should all be treated equally.

"Perhaps you don't have children that have been turned away from grants because we make to much money."

By the time they get to the age where they apply for grants, most poor kids are already way behind their peers from middle and upper class families. So I don't see how you can say poverty is an advantage when it comes to education. There are so many problems that go along with poverty that work to kids' disadvantage.

"Again I say learning is within every person if they just make the decision to succeed."

Maybe so, but some environments are more conducive to nurturing that desire to learn. Other environments can squelch it. What can we as a society do to nurture that desire to learn in young African American and Hispanic kids, who are lagging behind in general (with some exceptions, as you noted)? Surely you're not satisfied with the status quo?

"That is a load of Crap because we are the ones paying big taxes to pay for the program in the first place."

Maybe universal preschool should be available for everyone, then. I'd much prefer to do that than keep spending tax dollars on building more prisons.

The kids need to be told of programs such as one st Fresno State where hispanic students go and live on campus for a couple weeks in the summer to get information about college and put the fire in their hearts to want to be a better person.

Yes some kids are at a real disadvantage because education isn't made a priority in their home life. Maybe we could make it mandatory for the parents to come with their children to Saturday school and learn how to help their children learn so they can help them at home. Give them study skills so they can understand how to study and learn. I would like to see tutoring available in schools because most people can't afford private tutoring and if they don't get the basic knowledge they can't advance into the harder areas or subjects since everything goes back to the basics.

They have to have a foundation on which to build on. Education is much more important than fancy prisons for the criminals.